Did you watch that? Gerry Adams talking about Jesus and how Jesus affects him.
Here it is here on 4oD if you missed it.
A very interesting thing to watch, for me. I’m really not sure about Gerry Adams. The whole Troubles thing confuses me.
There was a time, when I was younger, I didn’t have to think twice about it. I was led to believe that Sinn Fein, the IRA, Celtic supporters, Catholics and the Irish were the baddies. The UDA, Rangers supporters, Proddies, the Orange Lodge and the UK were the goodies.
And from what I heard from the other side, they thought the opposite about me. Not that I’m trying to make out that I grew up in a sectarian warzone. I had plenty of Celtic-supporting, Catholic pals that never said one word to me about the situation in Northern Ireland. And I have to remind myself of that sometimes, because I can get myself worked up about how much religion divides people, before realising that it was never as big an issue as I think it was.
Mind you, you’d hear about people in other areas of Glasgow that would get murdered for wearing the wrong football top, so religion was a big issue to somebody. But it wasn’t where I grew up, I don’t think. What there was, though, was a feeling that everybody belonged to one of these two sides. Your religion, your school, your favourite football team, your stance on Northern Ireland and whether it was the Queen or the Pope that were to get themselves to fuck – they were all locked on together, you would know all these elements of a person’s personality by only knowing one.
Like people created on a production line. Cardboard cut-outs. And I’m embarrassed to say that I was one of them. I don’t mean to put down people who see themselves as one of those two sides. If you’ve thought it all out and those are your views, then fair enough. But I felt like they were put in my head, and I never questioned them.
And, over time, I started to unweave this fucking crap that passed down the generations, from one fucking idiot to another. I started to wake up to some of the realities of my personality.
I was meant to be a Rangers supporting Protestant that believed that Northern Ireland should be forever British. Until I realised that I’ve never actually liked football; I can’t be a Protestant if I don’t believe in God; and that I don’t think it’s right to chop off the top of another person’s country and claim it as your own, whatever way you look at it.
But for some reason, I held onto a mild liking of the Orange Walk. I remember some of my uncles being in it when I was young, seeing them walking in their suits and sashes, as part of this loud as fuck and long as fuck procession. I must have felt proud that I was in some way related to this powerful presence that had brought the traffic to a standstill.
And I held onto that right into my mid-twenties, I’m ashamed to say. Despite managing to deprogramme myself from all the other shite that was fed to me, I didn’t bother with this one. Until the Orange Walk themselves helped me to see the light.
They were doing a mini-walk in Yorkhill, round from where I lived, and I was on the pavement with my bike, waiting to cross. They were taking ages. I saw a gap, a large gap between one group walking and the one behind, and I went for it. I was halfway across the road on a moving bike, plenty of room on all sides, and only a second or two from reaching the other pavement. But a few of the cunts from the front row of the rear procession weren’t having it. They raced forward, grabbed me, said “Ye cannae dae that, ye cannae cut between the walks” or some shite like that, and dragged me back the way I came, with my bike scraping across the ground between my legs.
I stood there on the pavement in disbelief, as one cunt after another walked past, showing their fucking contempt. There were cunts in the band having a laugh at the fanny on the bike that got dragged off the road, and there were cunts that didn’t see the funny side as much and just growled at me. And then there were the cunts in the suits. I remember these sneering bastards keeping their heads faced forward, but looking at me out of their corner of their eyes, only a foot or two away from me.
I sensed one collective thought that they perhaps all shared: “Probably a Fenian”.
And that’s when it clicked for me. That’s when my eyes were opened. For years I had seen those walks in Northern Ireland where families would be barricaded into their own street, and I never gave two fucks.
And there I was, standing on a pavement that I was dragged back to, after being barred from crossing a street that was round the corner from my fucking flat, the place where I fucking live, by these sneering, growling cunts. There I was fucking outraged. Fucking pumping with adrenalin, furious.
I’m ashamed that it took that happening to me to snap me out of my acceptance for the Orange Walk. I should have been able to snap myself out of it purely with thought, and I should be able to empathise with other cunts’ situations without something similar happening to me. But there you go, that’s what it took.
If I take that outrage that happened to me, and multiply it by a few hundred, or a few hundred thousand, I think I’d experience the kind of outrage that radicalised the people of Northern Ireland during the Troubles. I can understand why they did the things they did. I can imagine their desire for justice or vengeance.
And so I finally get round to making my fucking point here.
I’ve told you all of the above to let you know in some way where I’m coming from. I’ve taken everything that’s been taught to me from a young age regarding these divisions and sides and the opinions on who’s right and who’s wrong, and chucked it all out my head. So that I can hopefully start new and see all sides.
But I watched Gerry Adams on that programme. A seemingly mild-mannered and intelligent man. And I thought “Did you do your best, Gerry? With all the faculties your mind had to offer you, did it really have to come to all that it came to?”
And I think the same thing about the IRA. I see cunts on my Xbox Live list with IRA in their name, I’ve seen pals in the past, good people, shout “Up the RA!”. I’ve tried to consider the IRA as freedom fighters working towards a noble cause, fighting against the injustice committed by a foreign country.
But, fuck me, as hard as I’ve tried to see the IRA as awright, it’s just not happening. The bombings. The fucking bombings, the violence. Was that really the only way? Was it?
I can’t ask myself what I’d do if I was in their shoes, because not only would I have done what they did, I probably would have been much, much worse. But I put that down to me being wired wrong and being not right in the head. What’s their excuse?
Look at Gandhi. Despite the Indians being on the receiving end of massacres and other injustices, he started a non-violent movement, no war, no bombs, no guns. News of the movement was reported, word spread, it found support, and India became an independent country.
With all the money that Sinn Fein or the IRA received, could that not have been used in a non-violent way? Call me fucking simplistic and naive, but couldn’t that money have been used on cameras or intelligence or just whatever means necessary to report what was going on? With that reported to the friends in America, wouldn’t that have made an influence? Did it have to come to guns and bombs? Did shootings and bombings really lead to the current, relative peace, or did it only lead to peace decades after it might have come?
Gerry Adams said he had no blood on his hands. Of course he does. He said he is at peace with himself. I don’t think he should be.
Like I said, if I was there at that time, I may very well have been one of the people committing the atrocities. But when it was all over, like it seems to be now, I would know that I had blood on my hands, and I wouldn’t be at peace until I had the forgiveness of everybody affected by my violence.
But anyway, it’s all over. Hopefully all over. I had a lump in my throat when Gerry Adams met the guy whose wife was killed in the Shankhill bomb. When I see reconciliation like that, I get a glimpse of how the future could be. Not just in Northern Ireland, but a future where no one’s killing anyone.
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great piece… well done… and well said, i can't comment on your life and what brought you where and how, but i am as surprised as you about the disconnect between all that and the orange marches, but i guess it might be different having family involved and proud of them etc…
all i've ever been able to feel from those marches is confrontational aggression, let alone the thugs that cheer along in their rangers tops drinking lager and walking along side them… not always metaphorically with their fingers up at everyone else…
its sheer confrontation and i am still stunned that this country allows a march that cruelly celebrates the murder of their enemies in the past…
anyway, an uplifting read all the same
Problem is another bomb went off just the other day. Some folk got shot last year over there, albeit by radicals, and all the shites that were shooting and killing people are now running Ireland. It's a disgrace. I'm on the other side of the fence, brought up to hate protestants and the orange walk. I hate the orange walk still mind you, but I'd like to think i'm just a person. i'm not a christian or a muslim or a jew, i'm just a person. and so is everyone else.
(posted in haste, so sorry if i'm wrong)
thank you, needed to be said.
Interesting take on it Limmy! Grew up as a marginalised catholic in the east end and was accepted by my mates as the token tim! Visisted the orange logde with little or no hassle for nights out,however did visit a function at the Nights of St Columbus club and felt just a little uneasy when the band played some songs and patrons donned balaclavas with mock machine guns!
I grew up in Wellpark and all my friends got summer jobs on the Vans at Tennents brewery that boredered our estate,each year from 14 i applied only to be informed by friends old fella that it was a closed shop to catholics!
Institutionalised sectarianism is being tackled these days but it just left me a bit dissapointed in adults at 14,my grandad was a real marxist a catholic who stayed in bridgeton all his years fought for his country a hard but fair fella that drunk in the local proddie pub all his days.His viewpoint was one of a false conciousness propogated by the upper classes to keep us minions fighting among ourselves so we could never tackle the real injustices that affected all green or blue.
I think after working for a period of time in the Republic of Ireland it will take a while before the north and south can come together as i found there is a real racist element in ROI not to protestants but to incoming migrant workers which i found perplexxing for a nation of people who had suffered from oppression themselves!
So well done for speaking your mind bro and loved the show De de needs his own show and if not somethin just disnae add up!
It's interesting to hear that story from someone who has first-hand experience of seeing quite how deeply how these two religions have enmeshed themselves in society. Not just in Glasgow, but all across Scotland and Northern Ireland (and no doubt further) everyone is split into two groups of people – protestants and catholics. FTP, FTQ, the sash and up the ra, it's not even a matter of religion anymore. Maybe it once was, but now it's an issue of identity, politics, peer pressure amongst children – but most of all, being 'brainwashed' growing up (for want of a better way of saying it). Religion only really comes into play when you get down the core of the different groups and sects of each side of the fence. Everything else is fanfare, media stereotypes entrenched in our culture. Whether you're from Aberdeen, Londonderry, Glasgow or fucking Drongan (just outside Ayr), you're brought up in surroundings affected by this shit. If you're from Drongan (or most places in Ayrshire, it's a blue blue county) you simply do not wear green. It is ridiculous. Anyway, i'm not really making my point yet. My point is this:
educate the children as early as possible that supporting green or blue (or red or fucking yellow or any colour) just because your friends do, or even worse – if your parents do with all the fanfare that goes with it (be it flying the red hand of ulster in your house or being told that the orange lodge is the worst thing in history) … if we can 'neutralise' the minds of youngsters in this sense, we could save the next generations a whole load of trouble, and – this is the thing – the wars may rage on, people may still chant FTP and FTQ, but it won't be in mainstream consciousness as much as it is today.
Those who truly care about annexing N.I. with the UK will still fight for it, and those who oppose will still oppose.
But when Celtic play Rangers at ibrox and parkhead, we won't have to see sectarian flags. Rangers fans won't feel the need to fly union jacks, or stab anyone wearing green.
You might be able to walk through drongan wearing green without getting jumped.
Society's mainstream consciousness might be able to separate itself from religious wars.
what about the hunger stikes? were they not non-violent?
I was dragged up in Ayrshire, where the 'divide' is as bad. I couldn't understand why my mates I ran around with went to a different school.
I asked my Dad why and he replied, 'cos they are fenians'.
Kids are kids, no problems. It's the adults who are fucked in the head.
Powerful stuff, mate. And not easy to say since there are still so many people “who see themselves as one of those two sides”. I like to think you're part of the greater majority though, but sometimes I wonder.
That happened to me anawl, tried to cross the road through a big enough gap in the orange walk and was near the end, n a mad guy grabed me n put me right back makin me feel that it was wrong just to cross a road? n then aboot 5guys stood roon me smellin ah booze goin DONT DAE THAT AGAIN, bad feeling it was, just felt like smackin lumps ah shii ooty them n im no even a violent person.
Great post Limmy! I'm pretty much on the same page as you on all of this. I would get so pissed off in school when all people worried about was what football team you supported and what area of town you were from, total bullshit. I never seen this programme on 4od though. I also have went through understanding the IRA but then there is no need for all the violence. Just wish the world could be more open-minded or all the people with similar outlooks get sent to certain parts of the world and live together with like minded people.
I lived just off Argyle street and the orange walk there is the worst I have experienced anywhere. The walk does several laps of a few blocks in the Yorkhill – Finnieston area which takes a few hours. Traffic is at a standstill, young bams running about with metal poles or anything else that can be used as a weapon, older bams shouting at shopkeepers because 'they've nae fuckin buckfast', every side lane reeking of piss, deafening banging of drums ruining any hopes of being able to just close the curtains and try to ignore it all. It's basically a riot outside your door and its about time it was banned altogether, not just moved to a park or somewhere else out of the way. And like Limmy, I was born into a protestant family but do not take any interested in religion whatsoever. Its about time we move forward as a race and this seems as good a place as any to start.
Nicely done there.
It's strange. I grew up Protestant with the same inbuilt thinking about Catholics. “If you walk under that sign, you're a catholic” Like there was nothing worse. Our school was next door to the Catholic primary. Strange kids in green uniforms as we saw them. It burnt down one day and everyone in our school stood at the railings and cheered – think some folk got hurt- one teacher lost his hair, but that was ok, he was catholic. My Gran wouldn't even call a guy my sister was going out with by his name as it was “Catholic Name”. One girl I went out with, her gran and granda werent at her mums wedding because she wasn't marrying a catholic. They missed their daughter's own bloody wedding for that shit.
Nonsense, of course and even strangers living in Canada where it simply isn't an issue. At all! I married a Catholic- a wedding my gran wouldn't have probably have gone to.It's strange not only to see people openly wearing, mostly, Celtic shirts out and about but on nights out- fashion nightmare to wear a strip on a night out but thats Canada for you! When my wife's family went to scotland for a holiday, I had to talk them out of wearing their Celtic strip to the pub- one, you might not get served, 2, you might get stabbed.
All being said though, there isn't so much the religion thing over here but there is a less than subtle undercurrent of matter of fact racism against all the people from all over the world here. It's a melting pot that doesn't quite mix too well.
So no matter what, people will always find something to draw lines between us and them and until as a group, that can be done away with, you're always going to up against the fact that everything is usually a good idea until people get involved. Not individuals, people as a whole. Tommy Lee Jones got it right in Men in Black!
A good commentary Brian. As a young catholic in the southside I have experienced mild situations like those described by yourself and on the subsequent comments, but nothing like that my father's generation or his father's generation experienced so things have been getting better over here at least…I am ill equipped to comment on the situation in Ireland.
I must admit to enjoying your show immensely – it is very refreshing to see some genuinely original material coming from Glasgow once again!
I am however often offended by your comments on religion (and I do appreciate that it is religion in general and not solely Christianity) and I wonder whether you feel it wholly necessary to vilify those who consider faith to be an important and integral part of their daily lives, when in other areas of society you seem to demonstrate the ability to champion equality?
In other words surely these points can be made without making people feel that their personal beliefs are being undermined? I'm all for debate and philosophical theory but I wouldn't feel good about telling other people they are plainly wrong…isn't that similar to the style of the doctrines spouted by both sides during the Troubles – only this time in the name of secularism?
nicky,
With due respect, you have taken the 'right' to be offended. That's okay.
But with that comes the 'right' to offend.
You can't have it both ways.
For the people at the top, on both sides of the troubles, it was never about religion or politics or independence.
It was about exploitation; it was about controlling taxi ranks, the building trade, after-hours pubs, fruit machines, illegal betting, smuggling, extortion, bribery, corruption and drugs.
They got the mugs, the brainless fucks too stupid to see what was going on, the ones running around in celtic tops or marching along behind the clowns in bowler hats and sashes, to do their dirty work for them.
Fight their turf wars, do their loan-sharking, hand out the 'punishment beatings', deal their drugs and run their brothels all in the name of ''fighting for 'the cause' ''. And every now and then, they'd bomb a shop, pub or club that had got a bit behind with their 'insurance' payments, or pop a round or two in the knees of a rival gang member just to reinforce the notion that there were 'troubles' worth fighting for. And the mugs lapped it up – on both sides of the wall and in the 'lands beyond the sea'.
Now the same gangsters have legitimized themselves by joining the political class and they'll carry on with their exploiting, carry on with their pocket-lining – only this time its the 'peace process' industry paid f they're fleecing.
And so it will go on; as long as there's a few bob to be made and some more mugs to exploit, the bastards with a knack for spotting idiots and relieving them of whatever little cash and dignity they possess, will keep on doing what they've been doing for centuries.
I grew up in Glasgow – not being a religious type or from a religious family, but was tagged as being a “proddie” by virtue of something or other. I supported Celtic, as I could see the floodlights from my garden. When I got into football, my dad (who had been a Rangers fan when he was a kid) took me there for convenience.
From that moment on, my life was different at school, with people. I was tagged as “that wannabe fenian” or “turncoat”. I was warned that there were streets in Dennistoun I couldn't walk down as I'd be chibbed. Still won't go near them.
My son's a Celtic fan now, he chose himself – his mother was a Rangers fan, his middle name is Cooper, after Davie! – yet I won't let him wear a Celtic shirt out to play because of the hassle it causes.
There are a fair amount of knuckle draggers and mouth breathers on both sides, mind.
But I liked the post from Limmy. Reminded me of growing up in Glasgow a lot…
Of course, but that doesn't make it fair Rab!
Brian, through his success, has been put in a position of influence and his purposeful deliverance of social, political and religious commentary must come with a responsibility to be fair or at least tolerant?
I don't pretend to represent my faith, rather I represent one who has a faith, and I am not defending religion but rather I am defending the philosophical deliberations of the Individual.
It appears to me that all this shite's about the animal ego trying to defend itself. It feels better about itself when it's in a group. An identification. I'm this, i'm that, i'm Rangers, i'm Celtic, I'm Muslim, i'm Protestant… and i'm PROUD. Bollocks. We're nothing. These are all ideas. Ideas of what we think we are and to me they seem to be the root of all problems. And pride comes before a fall.
But this is the way it is. This is human society at present.
However, you can always take a step back from it all and just observe. It's just one thought away.
What's the ploblem?
Limmy have you seen 'Just another saturday' the BBC tv movie from the seventies? it deals with a lot of what your saying and is set in Glasgow at about the same time as your experience
What horrible people Scotland contains though. They are everywhere but the hatred towards the Irish and Catholics really is sickening.
I'm a Celtic fan, live in England and born in Canada with Scottish parents and here's the difference. Myself, and many other Celtic fans hate Rangers, the club. Why? For what they stand for, for how they play football and how the fans conduct themselves. Of course Celtic have utter tits in it's support like any club but I don't hate Protestants or the Queen like Rangers hate the Irish, Catholics and anything that dare degrade the British Establishment. It's borderline fascism and downright racism that makes me glad I don't live in Scotland anymore. The media is just as bad; too frightened to share the truth. What a fvcking waste of a beautiful country.
I
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Well said Limmy and fair play to you pal.
Joke.
Limmy,
Great piece, nailed it on the head.
The sooner people evolve and get over themselves and their petty small-minded shit the better the world will be.
M
Limmy's piece was a good read, and his story is probably quite typical of many west of scotland folk. Ye half heartedly support these things, fuck knows why. Me- ten years ago my idea of a crackin saturday wid have been jumping on a supporters bus from easterhouse, goin tae a random scottish town/city where celtic were playing and singing as many obscure rebel songs as i could. Now I couldny think of anything worse. As far as Adams having blood on his hands goes- aye yer right, he does. Like Mandela, Guevara, Castro, Ibarruri, Vito Corleone and other good guys- he has blood on his hands. Was there another option?- No. Remember that the catholics in Ireland HAD been peacefully resisting- Result- Jan 72- bloody sunday, Gerrymandering, educational and social depravation. Armed resistance was the only way possible in order to achieve Catholic equality in Ireland. That said, where the IRA went wrong was killing innocents through bombing campaigns. You can have armed resistance without that.
Essentially I agree it was an interesting piece. Surprised Adams has any time for the bastard church but. An absolute whore of an institution.
i also found this a powerful read, and very poignant on auld firm weekend.
the programme itself was top class tv. goto 29.05 the conversation about Barabas, the guide described Barabus as a terrorist and Adams (touches his noise) replies “but from someone else's point of view he may have been a freedom fighter”.
Im not sure i believe Gerry Adams when he says he is at peace with himself.
The presence of the auld firm doesn't help the west of scotland when it comes to the sectarianism problem, although they are not to blame either as everyone is responsible for themselves and parents especially are responsible for bringing their kids up to not be sectarian.
I'll watch the game on sunday at the pub then get home fast and stay home til monday morning. I don't need a blade in the guts from someone brought up to hate me for things that happened before i was born.
i also found this a powerful read, and very poignant on auld firm weekend.
the programme itself was top class tv. goto 29.05 the conversation about Barabas, the guide described Barabus as a terrorist and Adams (touches his noise) replies “but from someone else's point of view he may have been a freedom fighter”.
Im not sure i believe Gerry Adams when he says he is at peace with himself.
The presence of the auld firm doesn't help the west of scotland when it comes to the sectarianism problem, although they are not to blame either as everyone is responsible for themselves and parents especially are responsible for bringing their kids up to not be sectarian.
I'll watch the game on sunday at the pub then get home fast and stay home til monday morning. I don't need a blade in the guts from someone brought up to hate me for things that happened before i was born.
Ive done a bit of reading on the troubles in Northern Ireland and well before that period. The United Irishmen led by a man called Wolfe Tone tryed to free Ireland and happened to fail. The interesting thing is that the united irishmen were not bound by religion but a common belief that ireland should be free. It was a mix of all faiths and people who had no religion. So where the fuck did it go wrong? Il tell you where…. The british used the basis of religion to divide a fuckin country. It just so happened that ulster happened to be predominantly protestant. What did the British say? You can have your independence but were keeping ulster because there like us, that is being protestant. They created a secterian divide on an unimaginable scale. Although there probally was underlying differences between religions the problem was amplified ten fold. The brits funded terrorist secterian gangs (uvf, uda) whatever the fuck you want to call them and said fight for your religion and your country. There you go another fucking secterian divide.
Thats why i believe religion is alot of shite!
A great piece. I can relate being on the same side, yet in Northern Ireland. I never really went in for it, but at the same time I never challenged it as much as I could have. It does rile me that it happens in Glasgow to, a place disconnected physically and one would think it has no reason to exist there. But it only exists because people want it to.
Not so nice to see a couple of comments completely miss your point, but that's life.
i think a few people are confused with the meaning of secterian. Someone mentioned secterian flags? I have never seen a religious flag at a game. If you mean tri-coulours and Red hand of ulster flags that isnae secterian.
Thanks for the well written and honest commentary about this. I spend a lot of time being frustrated over people not doing all they could to think about a situation.
I'm in america and have a different upbringing and experience than some of yous but I agree 100% with you – so you and other commenters know that people outside of Scotland and Northern Ireland care about this religion issue and what is going on in your countries.
Having grown up in Derry my experience of the Orange order and the whole parading issue is that it is just a thin veil covering sectarianism and bigotry. I understand that to a lot of people it is a proud heritage that they wish to maintain. I can respect this fact. But the reality is a little different. Having spoken to many of the older orange men they speak of a disappointment that it’s awash with booze these days. That very few are actually there for the heritage but rather the ‘sesh’. One senior Apprentice boy reiterated this fact by pointing out that nearly every lodge now has a bar installed in it so all the lads can get good and twisted before heading out on their wee march.
Lundy's day is one of the biggest dates on the parading calendar. It happens on the first Saturday of December, and it completely paralyzes the city of Derry. The amount of business lost from Christmas shopping is huge. But it doesn't come close to the amount it costs the tax payer each year to police the event. It is a contentious parade as it is in a predominantly nationalist city. And for this reason it draws a huge crowd.
Here’s a link to some pictures I took of this years parade, thankfully it passed off peacefully. But is the whole thing really necessary?
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=196181&id...
Great piece Limmy.
Unlike yourself I was from the east end, was catholic and supported Celtic. My mum was catholic, my dad was protestant and it was the Hibs walks around my way.
At around the middle of secondary school I actually started listening to some of the song lyrics and was thinking “What the fuck does that have to do about a football club? Soldiers and all that shite?” I hadn't realised what I had been walking in support of. All this shit about Ireland, stuff I had absolutely no knowledge about other than what drunken, older louts had taught me.
So I sat with my dad and he explained a lot about catholics and protestants and the differences between the religions. I then read the Bibles (and the later Mormon books as some of my friends were Mormon). Okay, but what does this have to do with Ireland? With football?
Nothing.
A lot of these people are in these walks for l the wrong reasons. Like we were once ourselves. A religious thing? An Irish thing? A football thing? Depending on which of these ill educated people you ask, you'll probably get the alternate answer.
Like a lot of things in Scotland, it's really just about a piss up and a fight. Sad, really.
Religion as a whole sickens me. The fact that mindless morons claim to be any religion and cut about doing the things that they do with the blind assumption that 'they are right'. Even though they have absolutly no proof to justify their claims and hide behind 'Faith'. And are only said religion because they were born in a certain part of the world, just adds fuel to my belief that religion has no place in a modern world.
My exposure to religion is from Glasgow, where I grew up and live. What the fuck does it matter wither you are a Catholic / Protestant / Muslim / Jew / Hindu / Buddhist or what ever. Why should religion play any role at all, Surely all that should matters is are you a prick or not. We are born a Human not a Catholic / Protestant etc etc, growing up under the umbrella of a certain religion doesn't make you a prick, being a prick makes you a prick.
So why should it effect our society at all, what purpose does the Orange Walk serve in Glasgow, but to inspire louts and give Neds a chance to bam each other up, give fat bald arsehole sectarian knobjockeys the chance to dress up like a butler thats just won a miss world competition and lead a public disruption and to piss off the general public in numerous ways. All under the pretentious guise of tradition.
I would bet my last quid on the fact that the majority of the people that support the orange walk and claim IRA loyalties haven't even got a clue what it's about or even attend church to practice their apparent beliefs. They're just doing it 'cause its a laugh' or 'their mates do it'. Don't get me wrong I'm sure there are people within these groups that are full on aware of what they are representing, as for the rest of the sheep, I believe the former is more accurate.
Read a fuckin book and educate yourselves before claiming yes I am 'insert creed' etc etc. the fact that in the grand scheme of things Christianity is one of the youngest 'Major Religions' should surely lend weight to the fact that its all a load of bollocks. What gives it the right to claim that it is for sure without a doubt the correct religion? In two thousand years will Scientolgy be riddled with the same problems as modern day Christianity?
I mean come on Christians can't even agree on the details of what it is they fuckin believe in… just look at all the different sects that fall under the Christian umbrella. Even Christianity itself is an offshoot of Judaism. We as a race are a lot older than any religion, how the fuck did we survive for so long without the divine wisdom of God?
Simply because we don't need it. God was/is a man made concept to control the weak and for the few to become filthy fucking rich in the process.
Another thing (to try and bring it back to the point of the blog) these muppets who claim loyalty to Queen and Country. They can fuck right off. The Royal Family are fucking GERMAN for one thing so should you divide your loyalty between Britain and Germany? The Royalty of Britian is a massive patch work of fucked up inbreeding, screw overs and assassinations, which allowed numerous different familys from all over the Britain and Europe (mainly the regions that would become; England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Denmark, Norway, France and Germany, to name just a few most of whom had different religions) to be 'Top Dog' so how can you be loyal to something that isn't even loyal to its self.
As for the violence in Ireland what reason is there for Britain to keep a hold of a smidgen of land compared to all the land that it has relinquished from its Great Empire? Surely Scottish people can at least sympathise with an Irish desire of freedom. Considering our own countrys bloody history and struggle from English oppression.
The Catholic vs. Protestant struggle is much older than a modern problem, for example what about the Prodestant Dutch that came riding in to kill the Scottish Catholic King of Britain and the subseqent persecution of Catholics in Scotland and then the Jacobite uprising. Even though that started as a Religious struggle I imagine that it later became more about a 'you're a prick, naw, you're a prick' type scenario except with lopping every other pricks head off.
anyone who wants to expand their mind and gain a better understanding of the world around them especially in regards to religion should search out the movie 'Zeitgeist' and read the 'God Delusion' and go from there.
“Think for yourslef, Question authority”
apoligies for the lengthy rant and its so loosely on topic its pushing it.
but it gets fucks me off beyond belief!
I watched the show with interest, particularly to see how he would marry up his faith & the way Jesus was supposed to have been, compared to his part in the troubles. At one point he did say briefly that he thought it was the government that created the Sectarian divide. I'm not religious at all although brought up Church of Scotland because that's what you did when you were wee – went to Sunday School. None of my pals supported either of the Old Firm & followed the lower league local team – that's another debate right enough; too many folk seem to be Rangers/Celtic or an EPL supporter.
The problem seems to be an inherent need wi some people simply to hate another group & your well written post is one example of that. I don't how it works for them, whether it's fear of the unknown or just plain brutal ignorance. I fear it is the latter. The Orange Walks depress me – they should just circle their own halls a few times.
I did smile a wee bit on the programme when he was discussing the crucifixion & the historian said that Barabas character would probably have been the equivalent of a terrorist in his day. So Mr Adams said “surely more of a freedom fighter”.
There's a great sketch on The Day Today where they take the piss out of the BBC's former policy of not allowing Gerry Adams' actual voice to be broadcast. They had him inhaling helium before he made a statement & the word 'bastard' was written under his picture.
I hope nobody minds me adding a wee bit of light heartedness to a serious topic.
i'd love to freeze myself cryogenically and wake up 100 years into the future.
Hopefully by then everyone has came to their senses and scrapped religion, no god, jesus, allah, krishnu, fuckin zeus or anytin.
and hopefully the UK turn round and say why the fuck do we have a rich bunch of cunts called the royal family, scrapped!
I think people of the distant future will look back and go “what a bunch of fannies everyone was in the early 2000's. People still believed in mystical beings, enough that they killed on mass scales for their beliefs”.
FUCK RELIGION
Quiston, there's mair 'pricks' in your post than on a junkies arm. Fuck sake.
Limmy, very eloquent piece of writing. Nice one.
Not just Glasgow for sure… permeates the West of Scotland.
Guy at work tells me today that he had a new neighbour in his house a week ago having a drink with him and his wife — the lady had just recently moved to the area and wanted to get to know them. She had two kids and they were playing upstairs.
He recalled to me how he had noticed how she was wearing white cords and a kelly green top an how it really annoyed him.. Finally, losing any sight of social decorum after a couple more drinks, he finally says to her “Listen hen, gonnae dae is a favour? Gonnae no wear they claes if yir in this hoos agin.”
Wow, I thought to myself. Wow.
Incredulity.
SO you need to be catholic to follow IRA ?
what one load of fucking pish.
quality words man, and as for zeitgeist, it blew ma mind, 3 different versions cuttin aboot, u get 2 at least on google video.
quality words man, and as for zeitgeist, it blew ma mind, 3 different versions cuttin aboot, u get 2 at least on google video.
Brilliant blog, Limmy.
I was raised among catholic Celtic fans, and I found myself buying into all that shite about the IRA and Rangers fans being proddy cunts. It's hard not to when EVERYONE you know thinks that, even people you respect and good pals.
But I've since fucked off oot of Glasgow to England (aye, I know) and it's a fucking relief to be away from all that cretinous pish.
The whole thing is utter pish, but how long is it before all the people of both Ireland and Scotland stop believing in this divide?
Long long time ago, the masses were told what to believe and killed if they dared speak out otherwise. Britain and Ireland were Catholic, then there was a split because some fat bastard the 8th wanted to shag more wives, then unity again, then seperation again.
Guess who didn't choose any of these religions. Aye, the people.
The general public have been the proles forever, the plebes, guided by the bastard establishment, brainwashed into absorbing religions that would force us to do our best, give our all, get nothing and be thankful that we were here to do it. Fucked by the tax collector, the land owner, the king, the queen, the ruler of the land. Religion paid a massive part in that.
So when it came to war, they'd flip religions and beliefs to fire up their soldiers to fight on their behalf. ON THEIR BEHALF. All the fucking wars are started by these cunts, and we're forced to fight them, or are thick enough to throw ourselves into the front fucking line the defend a notion we've been bred to hold.
Why do Scottish Rangers fans fly Union Jacks? Do they have a different country from us, or are they from this same country which fought the oppression of the English for thousands of fucking years? And the Union flag flies instead of the Saltire?
It's only now in this shite world of Trending, twittering, eternal useless information, that we the scum have tought ourselves and our intelligence is now that of the politicians and the kings and the presidents etc. that used to rule us. We're starting to ask things like, “What the fuck is the relevance of the Royal Family now?” and step up to change this miserable channel. The biggest rebellion you can join is to stop fighting these fabricated wars and get together again. Again.
The whole thing is utter pish, but how long is it before all the people of both Ireland and Scotland stop believing in this divide?
Long long time ago, the masses were told what to believe and killed if they dared speak out otherwise. Britain and Ireland were Catholic, then there was a split because some fat bastard the 8th wanted to shag more wives, then unity again, then seperation again.
Guess who didn't choose any of these religions. Aye, the people.
The general public have been the proles forever, the plebes, guided by the bastard establishment, brainwashed into absorbing religions that would force us to do our best, give our all, get nothing and be thankful that we were here to do it. Fucked by the tax collector, the land owner, the king, the queen, the ruler of the land. Religion paid a massive part in that.
So when it came to war, they'd flip religions and beliefs to fire up their soldiers to fight on their behalf. ON THEIR BEHALF. All the fucking wars are started by these cunts, and we're forced to fight them, or are thick enough to throw ourselves into the front fucking line the defend a notion we've been bred to hold.
Why do Scottish Rangers fans fly Union Jacks? Do they have a different country from us, or are they from this same country which fought the oppression of the English for thousands of fucking years? And the Union flag flies instead of the Saltire?
It's only now in this shite world of Trending, twittering, eternal useless information, that we the scum have tought ourselves and our intelligence is now that of the politicians and the kings and the presidents etc. that used to rule us. We're starting to ask things like, “What the fuck is the relevance of the Royal Family now?” and step up to change this miserable channel. The biggest rebellion you can join is to stop fighting these fabricated wars and get together again. Again.
Thanks for all your comments, everybody, a very interesting read.
I really liked your comment Limmy.
Although, as a guy raised as a catholic – now atheist, Celtic supporter, who went to a catholic school less than a mile from your non-denomonational secondary school, I don't really give a shit about Gerry Adams view on the greatest selling fictional book of all time.
Aren't the “Troubles” just a turf war that has continued momentum through exploiting religious divides and, now that religion is waining, footballing allegiances in neighbouring countries to try and maintain significance (or sell newspapers, whichever you prefer)?
Okay, so it's not as straight forward as that, I know, and it certainly means more to people on the island to the left of us. But that's my point, it should mean more to them, it's their island.
There are two things about the NI/ROI thing that really annoy me. I've listened to many passionate, political/romantic folk songs detailing the struggles against oppressors, I know many people from both areas of Ireland and the tragic sights they've witnessed, but what really makes my heart sink is that us Scottish folk (even with Irish roots) have not been as passionate and strongly nationalistic in our beliefs as either side of the Irish divide.
Despite our proud heritage, and our historical supposed combatitive nature, where is Scotland as a nation these days? We spend more time and money on divisions more relevant to Ireland & England than we do fixing our own nation.
Don't get me wrong, I don't see an independant Scotland as a solution, but I do wish we had the impetice and motivation to stand up and fight where our nation is being led astray or wronged.
Everybody likes to have a say, but nobody wants to take a proper stand these days.
Articulately put as usual Limmy, great commentary.
well said, and much appreciated. Its obviously a risky area to be commenting on, but it has to be said. I grew up with the same shite forced into my head, not by family, but just the area i grew up, only from the 'other side'. But for one reason or another, whether or not it was just to be different, i grew up supporting Rangers and going to a Catholic school and for yeeeears I have had to put up with the confusion when i tell people this. like you said, you hear one thing about a person, and you fill in all the gaps elsewhere, Im rangers fan so i MUST be a protestant. Anyway, I havnt had the chance to watch the Gerry Adams thing, cos im in Costa Rica, ill watch it when im home, but this is a great post. Hopefully your opinions and views on this will catch on as quickly as your comedy! Well in, cheers!
I grew up in Maryhill and I was a catholic but I went to a normal school. If you grow up in Glasgow you're split up at an early age, all the posh kids go to the private schools and all the ones with catholic parents go to the catholic schools, the rest just go to normal schools. It's a disgrace, i lost touch with so many great friends at a very young age just because their parents believed in some sect of Christianity. Sick of it, always have been, always will be.
yeah man
Top blog limmy. I'm sick of all the fannies.
When those marchers make you feel like a marginalised, hated foreigner in your own country the temptation to hurl abuse or objects at them as a way of striking back is very strong. It's because of that impotent outrage you were describing Limmy. It's such a horrible feeling. I'm so glad at least that these EDL marches have failed in Scotland – because they would just make another bunch of social/ethnic/religious groups feel as unwelcome as OO marches do. It's a great shame that all those who turn up for anti-racism protests lack the guts to protest against these hate-marches too.
I was just about to say the same thing, poofyprick, but you said it better than I would've. It's all just daft emotional attachments to something we've 100% invented. There's nothing “real” about any of these ideas, but people as a whole think they are, or want them to be, purely cos it satisfies the ego's desire for something real, something meaningful.
Aye. Join NI and RoI and make it the one country – Ireland. Simple. Same with Scotland, England and Wales – get them joined together. Forget this silly notion of independence and let's learn to love and support our neighbours.
Another tedious, egotistical cunt with a shady past involving the death and misery of thousands given air time about a topic which continues to involve the death and misery of millions. This is the past, present and future of the human race, never able to progress past religious divisions.
I was lucky, the stupidity of the whole religious divide was revealed to me at the age of 4 when I learned I would be going to school soon. I said excitedly to my mum 'me and Mary can walk to scoool together'. Mary was my best friend- brought up next door and our birthdays within days of each other.
My mum looked embarrased and tried to explain as gently as she could that Mary and me would be going to seperate schools because she was Catholicl. My wee head had some trouble processing this information until I had a bright idea – if Mary can't come to my school I will just go to hers. Needless t say it ended in tears.
The burning sense of injustice at being seperated from my best friend at such a tender age always stayed with me-along with an awakening to the understanding that a lot of what people say is 'the way it is' isn't- it's just the way they want it to be.
How you liking Costa Rica? Planning a trip there in October.
I those anti-nazi, Hibernian walk, bloody sunday and gay pride marches fukin cunts taking up all that police time
Is it just me or wiz it funny that the 30 years of troubles ended all these cunts that hated each other could talk tae each other round a table and no fukin kill each other just in time for our war on terror in the middle east started.
Im just sorry that a hell does not exsist for that bastard Gerry Adams
bastard to go to.
“anyone who wants to expand their mind and gain a better understanding of the world around them especially in regards to religion should search out the movie 'Zeitgeist' and read the 'God Delusion' and go from there.”
Haha!!!
What I want to know is what a grown man in his 20s was doing riding a bicycle on the pavement.
@Limmy “But, fuck me, as hard as I’ve tried to see the IRA as awright, it’s just not happening. The bombings. The fucking bombings, the violence. Was that really the only way? Was it?”
Aye, it was. He was right, Ghandi is an almost isolated incident throughout the entire history of the planet. Politicians and world leaders dont listen to the words of the people, how many marches have we seen in the last 9 years demanding withdrawal from Afghanistan? It does fuck all, peaceful protests, just gives the cunts in charge an easy ride. Imagine Russians had just had a wee march through St Petersburg when Hitler invaded?
In the words of Mao Tse Tsung “Change must come down the barrel of a gun”. (I don't know if he actually said that, its an Alabama 3 song but it backs up my point so its getting used.)
@ Limmy “I can’t ask myself what I’d do if I was in their shoes, because not only would I have done what they did, I probably would have been much, much worse. But I put that down to me being wired wrong and being not right in the head. What’s their excuse?”
It's not down to you no being wired right, its a basic human instinct in most people, someone takes something of yours you take it back, then you make sure they dont try and take it again. If we were occupied by a foreign army with a foreign religion/culture/language and they told us what to do then how many people can honestly say they would be happy about it? Nae cunt, so “they” don't need an excuse.
@Kaisersozzy – You're at the wind up.
glowsinthedark, Tommy its good to know people are hanging on to my every word.
Do you like ma new avatar?
Heres a link
http://www.youngfreethought.com/search?updated-...
A great piece Limmy…well thought out and very succinct. I too hate this 'religious divide' as it is a matter of a few changes in a book written by liars and murderers. I went to a Catholic school(my parents never made me practice the 'faith') and suffered years of Catholic conditioning. I had no choice but to support Celtic…it was the done thing. My dad is a Hibs fan…I should really support Hibs too, coming from Edinburgh, but I was kind of forced into supporting Celtic by my peers. I had to try to fit in(I was always the awkward, geeky kid that got bullied)as to stand out meant that I was marked as a 'troublemaker'. I was forced by my schoolteachers to sing in a fucking choir, even though I suffer from horrendous stage fright. I was made to feel as though 'God' would punish me if I didnt.(This is not even too long ago…I'm younger than you are). I had to endure being made to go to confession, then Holy Communion, then confirmation(again, this was my schooling, not my parents). I remember being told that I was wicked by a pish stained jakey bastard of a priest. He said that I had to attone for the 'original sin' that I had commited. I was 7. What sins, apart from being cheeky to my mum could I have been guilty of at 7 years old? However, unlike yourself, I DID question it from a young age. I saw through that horrible bullshit at 7…because of that preist. This upbringing, however, has left its wounds…I am still a 90 minute bigot…I will call Rangers fans orange bastards, huns and all manner of stuff. It is a deep failing in me…I have friends who support Rangers and they are good friends, but during that 90 minutes I hate everything about them…it will be the same today. I'm not trying to excuse my actions, however, there is a level of mitigation.
All of this religious hate is bollocks…I know that, but I need to, as you put it, de-programme myself. I need to look at what makes me do this sort of thing and then boot that behaviour out of the park…
I admire you enormously for taking a stance on this issue, as it is one that should have been put to rest decades ago. It mars an otherwise great little country, one that has for years been at the forefront of technology and science. It causes so many problems and offers so few answers. It has caused years of turmoil in Ulster, costing so many innocents their lives. It has caused people to throw rocks and stones at fucking children because they went to a Catholic school, but wanted to walk down a certain street(both sets of 'Christians' are to blame for this, the parents of those kids should be fucking hung for using their kids as political bargaining tools). It causes so many people to never even speak to each other because they are a 'fenian' or an 'orange bastard'. These people may have been great friends and allies, but we will never know because they will never have the opportunity to become friends…their bigoted, small minded families and friends will see to that.
I offer no prospective solution to this problem, I just wanted to have a wee rant about it to vent spleen. For this I am sorry.
n whit!?
bigroundbaby didn't say that he was quoting me.. and i reckon he was taking the piss by his,
'haha!' remark.
Ah, the good old days…
1.St. Peter (32-67)
2.St. Linus (67-76)
3.St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
4.St. Clement I (88-97)
5.St. Evaristus (97-105)
6.St. Alexander I (105-115)
7.St. Sixtus I (115-125) Also called Xystus I
8.St. Telesphorus (125-136)
9.St. Hyginus (136-140)
10.St. Pius I (140-155)
11.St. Anicetus (155-166)
12.St. Soter (166-175)
13.St. Eleutherius (175-189)
14.St. Victor I (189-199)
15.St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
16.St. Callistus I (217-22) Callistus and the following three popes were opposed by St. Hippolytus, antipope (217-236)
17.St. Urban I (222-30)
18.St. Pontain (230-35)
19.St. Anterus (235-36)
20.St. Fabian (236-50)
21.St. Cornelius (251-53) Opposed by Novatian, antipope (251)
22.St. Lucius I (253-54)
23.St. Stephen I (254-257)
24.St. Sixtus II (257-258)
25.St. Dionysius (260-268)
26.St. Felix I (269-274)
27.St. Eutychian (275-283)
28.St. Caius (283-296) Also called Gaius
29.St. Marcellinus (296-304)
30.St. Marcellus I (308-309)
31.St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
32.St. Miltiades (311-14)
33.St. Sylvester I (314-35)
34.St. Marcus (336)
35.St. Julius I (337-52)
36.Liberius (352-66) Opposed by Felix II, antipope (355-365)
37.St. Damasus I (366-83) Opposed by Ursicinus, antipope (366-367)
38.St. Siricius (384-99)
39.St. Anastasius I (399-401)
40.St. Innocent I (401-17)
41.St. Zosimus (417-18)
42.St. Boniface I (418-22) Opposed by Eulalius, antipope (418-419)
43.St. Celestine I (422-32)
44.St. Sixtus III (432-40)
45.St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
46.St. Hilarius (461-68)
47.St. Simplicius (468-83)
48.St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
49.St. Gelasius I (492-96)
50.Anastasius II (496-98)
51.St. Symmachus (498-514) Opposed by Laurentius, antipope (498-501)
52.St. Hormisdas (514-23)
53.St. John I (523-26)
54.St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
55.Boniface II (530-32) Opposed by Dioscorus, antipope (530)
56.John II (533-35)
57.St. Agapetus I (535-36) Also called Agapitus I
58.St. Silverius (536-37)
59.Vigilius (537-55)
60.Pelagius I (556-61)
61.John III (561-74)
62.Benedict I (575-79)
63.Pelagius II (579-90)
64.St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
65.Sabinian (604-606)
66.Boniface III (607)
67.St. Boniface IV (608-15)
68.St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
69.Boniface V (619-25)
70.Honorius I (625-38)
71.Severinus (640)
72.John IV (640-42)
73.Theodore I (642-49)
74.St. Martin I (649-55)
75.St. Eugene I (655-57)
76.St. Vitalian (657-72)
77.Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
78.Donus (676-78)
79.St. Agatho (678-81)
80.St. Leo II (682-83)
81.St. Benedict II (684-85)
82.John V (685-86)
83.Conon (686-87)
84.St. Sergius I (687-701) Opposed by Theodore and Paschal, antipopes (687)
85.John VI (701-05)
86.John VII (705-07)
87.Sisinnius (708)
88.Constantine (708-15)
89.St. Gregory II (715-31)
90.St. Gregory III (731-41)
91.St. Zachary (741-52)
92.Stephen II (752) Because he died before being consecrated, many authoritative lists omit him
93.Stephen III (752-57)
94.St. Paul I (757-67)
95.Stephen IV (767-72) Opposed by Constantine II (767) and Philip (768), antipopes (767)
96.Adrian I (772-95)
97.St. Leo III (795-816)
98.Stephen V (816-17)
99.St. Paschal I (817-24)
100.Eugene II (824-27)
101.Valentine (827)
102.Gregory IV (827-44)
103.Sergius II (844-47) Opposed by John, antipope (855)
104.St. Leo IV (847-55)
105.Benedict III (855-58) Opposed by Anastasius, antipope (855)
106.St. Nicholas I (the Great) (858-67)
107.Adrian II (867-72)
108.John VIII (872-82)
109.Marinus I (882-84)
110.St. Adrian III (884-85)
111.Stephen VI (885-91)
112.Formosus (891-96)
113.Boniface VI (896)
114.Stephen VII (896-97)
115.Romanus (897)
116.Theodore II (897)
117.John IX (898-900)
118.Benedict IV (900-03)
119.Leo V (903) Opposed by Christopher, antipope (903-904)
120.Sergius III (904-11)
121.Anastasius III (911-13)
122.Lando (913-14)
123.John X (914-28)
124.Leo VI (928)
125.Stephen VIII (929-31)
126.John XI (931-35)
127.Leo VII (936-39)
128.Stephen IX (939-42)
129.Marinus II (942-46)
130.Agapetus II (946-55)
131.John XII (955-63)
132.Leo VIII (963-64)
133.Benedict V (964)
134.John XIII (965-72)
135.Benedict VI (973-74)
136.Benedict VII (974-83) Benedict and John XIV were opposed by Boniface VII, antipope (974; 984-985)
137.John XIV (983-84)
138.John XV (985-96)
139.Gregory V (996-99) Opposed by John XVI, antipope (997-998)
140.Sylvester II (999-1003)
141.John XVII (1003)
142.John XVIII (1003-09)
143.Sergius IV (1009-12)
144.Benedict VIII (1012-24) Opposed by Gregory, antipope (1012)
145.John XIX (1024-32)
146.Benedict IX (1032-45) He appears on this list three separate times, because he was twice deposed and restored
147.Sylvester III (1045) Considered by some to be an antipope
148.Benedict IX (1045)
149.Gregory VI (1045-46)
150.Clement II (1046-47)
151.Benedict IX (1047-48)
152.Damasus II (1048)
153.St. Leo IX (1049-54)
154.Victor II (1055-57)
155.Stephen X (1057-58)
156.Nicholas II (1058-61) Opposed by Benedict X, antipope (1058)
157.Alexander II (1061-73) Opposed by Honorius II, antipope (1061-1072)
158.St. Gregory VII (1073-85) Gregory and the following three popes were opposed by Guibert (“Clement III”), antipope (1080-1100)
159.Blessed Victor III (1086-87)
160.Blessed Urban II (1088-99)
161.Paschal II (1099-1118) Opposed by Theodoric (1100), Aleric (1102) and Maginulf (“Sylvester IV”, 1105-1111), antipopes (1100)
162.Gelasius II (1118-19) Opposed by Burdin (“Gregory VIII”), antipope (1118)
163.Callistus II (1119-24)
164.Honorius II (1124-30) Opposed by Celestine II, antipope (1124)
165.Innocent II (1130-43) Opposed by Anacletus II (1130-1138) and Gregory Conti (“Victor IV”) (1138), antipopes (1138)
166.Celestine II (1143-44)
167.Lucius II (1144-45)
168.Blessed Eugene III (1145-53)
169.Anastasius IV (1153-54)
170.Adrian IV (1154-59)
171.Alexander III (1159-81) Opposed by Octavius (“Victor IV”) (1159-1164), Pascal III (1165-1168), Callistus III (1168-1177) and Innocent III (1178-1180), antipopes
172.Lucius III (1181-85)
173.Urban III (1185-87)
174.Gregory VIII (1187)
175.Clement III (1187-91)
176.Celestine III (1191-98)
177.Innocent III (1198-1216)
178.Honorius III (1216-27)
179.Gregory IX (1227-41)
180.Celestine IV (1241)
181.Innocent IV (1243-54)
182.Alexander IV (1254-61)
183.Urban IV (1261-64)
184.Clement IV (1265-68)
185.Blessed Gregory X (1271-76)
186.Blessed Innocent V (1276)
187.Adrian V (1276)
188.John XXI (1276-77)
189.Nicholas III (1277-80)
190.Martin IV (1281-85)
191.Honorius IV (1285-87)
192.Nicholas IV (1288-92)
193.St. Celestine V (1294)
194.Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
195.Blessed Benedict XI (1303-04)
196.Clement V (1305-14)
197.John XXII (1316-34) Opposed by Nicholas V, antipope (1328-1330)
198.Benedict XII (1334-42)
199.Clement VI (1342-52)
200.Innocent VI (1352-62)
201.Blessed Urban V (1362-70)
202.Gregory XI (1370-78)
203.Urban VI (1378-89) Opposed by Robert of Geneva (“Clement VII”), antipope (1378-1394)
204.Boniface IX (1389-1404) Opposed by Robert of Geneva (“Clement VII”) (1378-1394), Pedro de Luna (“Benedict XIII”) (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa (“John XXIII”) (1400-1415), antipopes
205.Innocent VII (1404-06) Opposed by Pedro de Luna (“Benedict XIII”) (1394-1417) and Baldassare Cossa (“John XXIII”) (1400-1415), antipopes
206.Gregory XII (1406-15) Opposed by Pedro de Luna (“Benedict XIII”) (1394-1417), Baldassare Cossa (“John XXIII”) (1400-1415), and Pietro Philarghi (“Alexander V”) (1409-1410), antipopes
207.Martin V (1417-31)
208.Eugene IV (1431-47) Opposed by Amadeus of Savoy (“Felix V”), antipope (1439-1449)
209.Nicholas V (1447-55)
210.Callistus III (1455-58)
211.Pius II (1458-64)
212.Paul II (1464-71)
213.Sixtus IV (1471-84)
214.Innocent VIII (1484-92)
215.Alexander VI (1492-1503)
216.Pius III (1503)
217.Julius II (1503-13)
218.Leo X (1513-21)
219.Adrian VI (1522-23)
220.Clement VII (1523-34)
221.Paul III (1534-49)
222.Julius III (1550-55)
223.Marcellus II (1555)
224.Paul IV (1555-59)
225.Pius IV (1559-65)
226.St. Pius V (1566-72)
227.Gregory XIII (1572-85)
228.Sixtus V (1585-90)
229.Urban VII (1590)
230.Gregory XIV (1590-91)
231.Innocent IX (1591)
232.Clement VIII (1592-1605)
233.Leo XI (1605)
234.Paul V (1605-21)
235.Gregory XV (1621-23)
236.Urban VIII (1623-44)
237.Innocent X (1644-55)
238.Alexander VII (1655-67)
239.Clement IX (1667-69)
240.Clement X (1670-76)
241.Blessed Innocent XI (1676-89)
242.Alexander VIII (1689-91)
243.Innocent XII (1691-1700)
244.Clement XI (1700-21)
245.Innocent XIII (1721-24)
246.Benedict XIII (1724-30)
247.Clement XII (1730-40)
248.Benedict XIV (1740-58)
249.Clement XIII (1758-69)
250.Clement XIV (1769-74)
251.Pius VI (1775-99)
252.Pius VII (1800-23)
253.Leo XII (1823-29)
254.Pius VIII (1829-30)
255.Gregory XVI (1831-46)
256.Blessed Pius IX (1846-78)
257.Leo XIII (1878-1903)
258.St. Pius X (1903-14)
259.Benedict XV (1914-22) Biographies of Benedict XV and his successors will be added at a later date
260.Pius XI (1922-39)
261.Pius XII (1939-58)
262.Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
263.Paul VI (1963-78)
264.John Paul I (1978)
265.John Paul II (1978-2005)
266.Benedict XVI (2005—)
Adolf Hitler
Martin McGuinness
Gerry Adams
George Galloway
Can you hear me?
your Bhoys took one hell of a beating!!!!!!!!
George Galloway
The most sense in this thread.
If someone walked into your house and said, “I'm taking this room and there's fuck all you can do about it!”, would you do a wee march round the street?
Adolf Hitler?
Definite 'hun.'
“Adolf Hitler?
Definite 'hun.'”
Thats were you would be wrong Highway Patrolman. Hiltler was brought up a Roman Catholic in one of the most toxic areas of Roman Catholic anti-semitism that is southern germany but more so Austria. Like this post message, something that the Young Adolf was immersed from an early age and no doubt contributed to his feelings later on in life.
Heres a wee question for you in the second world war the roman catholic church dosnt come out looking to good to say the least of all these Nazi leaders who were Roman Catholics, in addition to Adolf Hitler, were Josef Goebbels, Heinrich Himmler, Reinhard Heydrich, and Rudolf Hoess, but only one, Josef Goebbels was ever excommunicated by the roman catholic church.
But what was it for? Killing millions of people. stealing and looting from millions of people. No it was because he married a protestant divorcee.
What the fuck are you on about?
Nobody cares.
too much knowledge can be dangerous sossy.
i hope tonights full moon hasn't inspired a blood bath out there. so far my street has been quiet a wee bit of argy bargy around 4pm and that was all. i hate auld firm night.
love is better than history mah man. some of those popes names were cool as fuck though! pope boniface and pope pedro. don't get popes like that anymore.
Football is shit,
Religion's a disgrace,
You all wish,
My bum was in yer face.
You obviously do cunto!
He was rubbishing your pointless post about Hitler being a “hun”.
What the fuck has that got to do with anything anyway?
It's people like you who continue to fuel the fire.
Top commentary mate.
I was raised without religion, although my grandparents were non-pushy protestants, but my mum refused to give religion a place in the home. I felt a bit like I was out of the loop (ie. different to everyone else) so I checked out the religions as a kid, without parental persuasion, and realised as I hit my teens that the reason I couldn't get my head around it was the fact that religion pretty much NEEDS to be rammed into your head when you're vulnerable (be it as an impressionable wean, or as an adult surrounded by tough and trying circumstances). So, I'm with you on all of that.
Now, your point about the IRA is a well-reasoned one, but you only have to look at the plight of the Palestinians to see how decent people who are pushed into a corner and oppressed on such a grand scale turn to violence against their tormentors. It might not be morally justifiable, but you don't have to agree with the methods to understand the position those people are in. The sad fact is that these 'radicals' actually give the oppressors their biggest propaganda coup: the notion of the 'other' whose 'barbarism' is self-evident and helps shore up support of the (largely unthinking) masses for the oppressors (ie. ruling class).
So, what I guess I'm saying is, fuck it all; religion, racism, sectarianism, violence. I know why some people cling to it (mainly the need for a sense of belonging, and the politics of 'identity', shared hatred of the 'other' upon whom all of society's ills can be blamed), but it's essentially a house built on foundations of shite. None of it stands up.
Also, to those who are offended by the critics of religion – you frequently remind us that you have this reason-bereft 'faith', so are you not comforted by it? Or are you actually, like the rest of us, pretty much unsure about life and frankly terrified of death? You cling to religion as some kind of cosmic safety blanket to make the bogeyman (the reality of life and death) go away, but in your deepest unconscious, you know, as we do, that it's a sham and that's why you're so insecure when we, those pesky atheists, show you that the blanket which gives you this placebo-like 'faith' effect is, in fact, quilted with lies and stiched with the thread of fear. Wipe your arse with it, toss the shitty blanket aside, and take comfort in the knowledge that you know fuck all.
I grew up in Glasgow and have had an inbuilt aversion to (what I see as) the mindless tribalism of being a football fan here. I've always hated it, my entire life, because just under the surface, juuuuust where you could make it out, was that line between me, and the kids I grew up with who went to a slightly different church than the one my folks took me to until i was old enough to decide whether I wanted to go or not. It's cheap, weak and utterly pointless. The idiots parading through town with their mysterious sense of entitlement to the domination of the streets are one of Scotland's (and the UK's) greatest shames. So many people clinging to some ridiculous notion, waddling around in their toy soldier uniforms. Sickening.
I think Highway Patrolman says it best.
I was being ironic and somewhat facetious in a way you obviously couldn't even begin to comprehend.
Couldn't give a fuck about any of it.
Is this really what passes for documentary filmmaking on Channel 4?
Fuds.
“Look at Gandhi. Despite the Indians being on the receiving end of massacres and other injustices, he started a non-violent movement, no war, no bombs, no guns. News of the movement was reported, word spread, it found support, and India became an independent country.”
I don't think it's as easy as holding up Ghandi as a model which if not met, entirely discredits alternative means. Nor credits them. That's the point isn't it, it's more complex than a simple question as to whether certain methods are 'acceptable'. I mean, the focus on something like suicide bombing doesn't negate from the fact the Palestinians have lived under a military occupation for over 40 years – peaceful, non-violent resistance being quashed. The history doesn't start with the seemingly intractable tit for tat battle between republican and loyalist groups but obviously goes back to the colonisation of Ireland itself, and the widescale attempts to curb any beginnings of any resistance – which is why it took on its reactionary and mental form. Also, Ghandi was an old school Hindu in the right place at the right time.
“..They raced forward, grabbed me, said “Ye cannae dae that, ye cannae cut between the walks” or some shite like that, and dragged me back the way I came, with my bike scraping across the ground between my legs…
And there I was, standing on a pavement that I was dragged back to, after being barred from crossing a street that was round the corner from my fucking flat, the place where I fucking live, by these sneering, growling cunts. There I was fucking outraged. Fucking pumping with adrenalin, furious.”
Ye sounded like Tom from your Podcast there, yer wee tale's like a scrape he would get intae.
Brilliant blog!
I've lived in Northern Ireland all my life (since the early eighties). Part of my childhood was spent mostly oblvious to the 'troubles'. I think I really only became more aware of it through the news. I realised there was a minority of people responsible for most of the problems. Much in the same way that it would only be a minority of people in school who would pose the question “you a prod or a taig?” when most people wouldn't actually give a fuck.
Nowadays I feel the consensus doesn't care about what side of the fence you live on. Even staunch communities which actively encouraged the painting of secretarian murals on the side of their homes are painting over them now. Although, I always thought paintings of terrorists holding bent AK47's with disproportionately sized body parts were pretty funny.
Nobody wants this shite anymore. Everyone is so fed up of this minority of people who continue to cause problems. People are turning their backs on them and the past.
The church gets you sucked in at an early age just like a free McDonalds Kids Party. At a McDonalds Kids Party You get balloons and a cake and all your friends are there. You grow up associating happy memories and bright colours and fun with McDonalds and (this is particularly true of americans) you are hooked for life. Filling your body with some of the worst (potato flour based) crap in the world.
Religion gets you in at a young age too. Your young memories are filled with nostalgia and it associates itself with when you were part of something. If church leaders are really slick they keep a book of names of their congregation, their children names, their job or any problems the church member might be having. Then they read it off. How is so and so doing? and little barney? etc. To make you think they know you and care. But it's all about tithe. You missing a few visits to that church meant they missed their wages.
Then theres the bible, yet another hierarchical tome desiged to promised you the knowledge and control of others if you figure out how to manipulate the words. Then you can walk around like a f*cking Pharisee telling others what to do because you hold a position of respect within the church. Like pyramid sales, someday you'll be at the top and the one who knows the most gets to be the most important member of the church and gets to be the best christian one day a week. Yet again it's control and power loosely disguising itself in whatever acceptable form it can take in it's environment. You continue to fill your body with some of the worst crap in the world because that's what you did when you were young.
Spot on, single religious schools create the division from the age of five without a word having to be spoke. Someday in the not too distant future, kids of all faiths and none will be educated under the same roof.
That's a bit of a biggoted generalisation.
I was brought up in Glasgow as a catholic, half my family are Irish, I support Scottish independance and I am anti monarchy. But, I was jumping with joy when Edu scored the winner on Sunday because I support Rangers as a football team.
Rangers fans probably arent as well behaved as celtic fans but not all of them fit the stereotype you've described. you have not described rangers fans, you have described biggoted fannies.
its this kind of attitude that is the root of the problem, people like you, Damo Cotter, are the problem. I dont think you understood Limmys post at all. Please stay in England, we dont want you in this beutiful country.
Jesus doesn't protect his tweets. Spreading his arms wide, he embraces his followers.
Just sayin.
lmao
how ironic ira paddy!
i enjoyed that !:D
starve ya ride. talkin pish.
Fuck me limmy, finally some deep thoughts!
We humans have an in built need to join groups. It then becomes a self perpetuating thing, where the more you feel part of the group, the more you dislike people outside the group. If you hate the other group, this bolsters the sense that you're part of something. This simple desire has of course been twisted by the worng minded since time began.
Clever people see through the bullshit. It seems attractive and exciting to a wee boy, but for adults to indulge in it is just ridiculous.
I went to a proddie school, though my ma was a catholic. I'm not sure how much this influenced my decision early on to abandon the stupidity of bigotry. Mates of mine used to say casually that 'they hated tims' and i would ask them if they hated my ma. Oh no, they said, and that pretty much explains the mentality of a grown up spouting that shite.
a was the same when a was younger, except on the other half of the divide. told to hate prodies cause they all opprese catholics at every turn. took a long time and a lot a growing up to realise its only the ignorant who follow that nonsense over here. in ireland ok they have seen these issues properly first hand over there and they are tryin(albeit slowly but surely) to put it behind them but over here its hatred for the sake of hatred.
Here folks, seen this: http://bit.ly/18ogaj
Great post, Limmy.
Like you, I'm not a football fan but it's disgraceful that in this day and age we can't end the sectarianism. The comments made have been thought provoking.
Oh, and Limmy, your show was top notch!
Having spent most of my life in Northern Ireland and Scotland i can safely say it's all a load of shite. Pity it's all still happening in the 21st century when we're all supposed to be smarter than fucking monkey's! Two sides to every story and i had my balls kicked in for being a “black bastard” once or twice. But i ain't gonna let experiences like that fester and turn me into a retarded bigot like those arseholes still causing trouble for everyone.
Love the show and keep up the good work.
The Davinci Code is real…
lol
People often characterise sectarianism as a problem caused by football fans or the working class but, in my experience, privately educated, upper middle class Scottish people have racist, virulently anti Catholic/ anti Irish views which would put even a tattooed skinheaded ned to shame. Anti Irish racism runs deep in Scotland and the establishment are as guilty as the football fans and the average guys in the pub.
One example from my own life: I left school and got into a prestigious academic institution in London. It has a reputation for having its alumni working in top positions in the world's best museums and art galleries. In my summer holidays while a student, I came back to Scotland and popped into one of Glasgow's top private art galleries. I had a look around the exhibition (about David Hockney, if I remember rightly) and chatted to the very posh Scotsman who owned the gallery. I told him where I was studying. He was impressed and very friendly. He asked me where I was from. I told him my hometown in Scotland. He had family there so he knew it well. He asked which school I went to (classic west of Scotland question to find out if you are a Pape or a Proddy). He asked if it was the private school or the non denominational (by default “Proddy”) school. When I told him that I had gone to the Catholic school, his whole attitude and demeanour changed. He suddenly looked at me like I had horns and asked angrily;
“How did YOU get into your college?” as if a thick bog trotting Mick like me wasn't intelligent enough to get into one of the best colleges in the country. I told him “I applied, I was interviewed, they offered me a place, I passed my exams and I got in”.
The guy was a total fanny but unfortunately he was also one of the biggest names in the Glasgow art scene. Right then I knew my plans of working in a gallery in Glasgow were fucked. Even though I was a student on the best art history course in the country, this tube thought I was a retard because I had gone to Catholic school.
Sectarianism is rubbish. I am not inferior because I am Irish Catholic and I don't think any less of people who are Scottish Protestants or whatever label you put on them.
I live in London now and one of the reasons I was put off living in Scotland was all this sectarianism shite. Get it to fuck.
Jackie
Just because you went to a Catholic school and support Celtic doesn't make you a Catholic. That's one of the other fucked up things about Celtic and Rangers.
it was all the big bad proddies fault, noticed you fail to mention the hibs walk limmy. or was it meant to be one sided?
disappointed.
Well said Limmy.
This country has been divided by two religions and by two football teams who are used, whether their followers like to believe it or not, to maintain the segregation and sectarian barriers between both sides.
I've got many friends on both sides of the divide, all of which sing the songs and believe all this 'fuck the queen' and 'fuck the pope' stuff.
Fuck the both of them, neither are superior to any one of us.
All religion is to blame, not only divided Christianity. The sooner people stop noticing the daft differences between each other and instead realise that we are all the same, the sooner this country and the world can become civilized.
Spot on Limmy, incredibly well put. The only thing I was worried about was that the comment board would be rife with usually normal people stating their insane beliefs and it would have descended into a rambling feud but there doesn't seem to be much bullshit being said at all, gives you hope that one day this won’t be such a big issue (Maybe when aliens appear from space and declare there is no god!).
Limmy,
A very good take on how an awful lot of us feel in the West of Scotland. When I was wee I certainly had “nae sense”. It took me years to grow up and realise it was all a whole lot of pish.. I'm in my 40's now and as a kid what side you were on was all that mattered. I was in the orange lodge and I (at the time) seriously hated the other side. I wanted to join the army and do my bit in Northern Ireland, so I did and as a young paratrooper I loved sticking my chest out and stopping people in west Belfast.. Things started to change though.. During house searches instead of loving it with a GIRUY attitude I started to think, “no wonder they hate us”.. Then I come across a catholic (an old man, a person) murdered by the uff in north Belfast. It was truly horrible.. Then I would come home and go to see rangers and people around me would be shouting “u u u f f”… Eh wait a minute here, they are real horrible cunts you really have no idea.. I have some cousins who won’t let it go and sometimes I have a go at them about it.. They reckon they have to part of it because the other side exist.. I reckon that even though there are bad cunts on both sides the more of us brought up with this pish who let it go then both sides will get smaller and smaller and eventually it will all disappear.. So well done Limmy, tell it how it is and like you, I and many others have seen the light.
Respect
Peace-Out
Last year or the year before, I was trying to get to work on a Saturday when they had their fuckin march, of course I was running late coz I work on Sauchiehall St and the traffic was backed up all through town, so I was walking up Bby Bath Street, when I saw the march and thought “That's why I'm late!”
Anyway, I walked up Bath Street the opposite way of the march, and I had to walk on the road coz the pavement was so thicj with people standing I couldn't move. Coz I was walking up the road the opposite way of the march, everyone looked like they wanted to fucking stab me, and a policewoman said “you cannae walk on the road just now, you're no allowed!!” so I stepped on the pavement til she jogged on then walked back up the road again, none of the other coppers said anything coz they didn't care. Pissed me right off, it's a fucking public road and it's in the middle of the city, and I need to use it to get to work coz you've stopped my bus already. I was wearing all black, my uniform for work, and walkin in a way that looked pretty obvious that I had somewhere to be, all these cunts thinking I'm there to piss them off, they need to get over themselves, self important cunts, I would rather you didn't have your gay wee march at all with your faggy uniforms let alone doing it in the centre of the city on a Saturday.
I'm not homphobic, I just really can't think of any other way to describe what they wear. I mean 'gay' in the way you'd use it in school.
I don't expect anyone to read this anyway coz I'm not asking a question or making a point, just having a rant.
Ta!
you've failed to mention anything to do with the hibs walks. also if you dont know EXACTLY what the loyal orange order is about then you can't possibly comment with half a story. all good protestants and catholics know how to behave but in any religion there are always some misguided arseholes to let you down.
im sure most people wouldn't interupt a gay pride march, a muslim parade, a hibs walk, a peace walk, in this democratic country we have a basic right to march and protest. i would never interupt a march whether i disagreed or not. if you want throug all you need to ask is someone who is keeping it in order like police. if i don't like what they're marching about you don't need to listen.
i have issues with the RC church always see double standards and a cataloge of cover-ups and 'protecting the faith' instead of outing people who commit sin as should be done inkeeping with the bible. as reflected through current issues surfacing in the british press.
people are too quick to throw the work sectarian an bigot around when they do not know the meaning of the words, people are too quick to tarnish all protestants with the same brush just for singing about their loyalty to their team or country or whatever they choose.
what some people fail to realise is that this IS a protestant country whether you like it or not. im not saying this means everyone has to be a protestant. if it werent for for all these battles to save this country then we wouldn't have te freedom and human rights we have today, simple as that.
I have to admit Limmy, you're inspired seeing-the-hatred-behind-sectarianism story brought a tear to my eye..
Actually, did it fuck.
If you don't realise until you're fucking TWENTY the idiotic, low brow, partly-fitba-associated-shite that the walk represents, then it just shows that “ye kin take the schemie oot the scheme, but ye cannae take the scheme oot the schemie”.
Seriously, how fuckin daft is this post?
I Know this blog is a month old but I just read it and found a it very interesting. I come from an Irish republican background and a number of my relatives have been active members in the conflict, not through a choice of their own but due to the circumstances they were forced into due to the activities of the British establishment. They are good people and never would have been invloved in anything if circumstances were different.
I'm 30 now so my normality when groing up was one of conflict. But I would like to comment on what you noted as 'the other side' denotting that the key issue in the north of Ireland is between religions. As I noted above I come from a very active republican faimly and I was never brought up to believe that protestants were my 'enemy'. I was brought up to believe that it was the British that were my enemy and not the british people but the british establishment, including the army.
Growing up I seen with my own eye's the brutality of the British regime here in my country through their army. If anything, working class protestants have received just as bad a deal out of the conflict situation here as working class cathlolics, but I suppose it's suits the british to let the world believe what happened here was merely some sort of tribal conflict … it exonerates them from any responsibility and protrays them to the world to be merely playing a 'peace keeping' role.
I liked your article, and I must say it was also good to read Matt's post above,but I just wanted to outline my thoughts on those points you made at the beginning of your blog.
Read a fuckin book. Could not agree more pal.
Well in mate. It's always good to read or hear about somebody who has their eyes open to things that other people seem to be brainwashed into hurting other people over.
Thanks for reading my post Sarah. I enjoyed reading your post too and found it interesting. I think we can say that all sides suffered and all sides inflicted. When I say sides I don’t just mean the tribal divide that you quite rightly pointed out and plenty of people mistake for. It was easy for us as soldiers, because after 6 months we could just walk away and get away from it all. You guys had it day in and day out.. I'm pleased some peace exists now, but I know that the hatred in many hearts are still brewing and not far from the surface. I wish and hope that all of us can move on and try and forget it all and mix with others and be friends with others. Some people will never be able to do that, but I'm pleased that I can and I have. Because of that I'm at peace with myself and enjoying life like never before.. I have made friends with some people I met in Ibiza a few years ago who are from the same republican areas of North Belfast I once patrolled. Sometimes I go over to Belfast to visit and sometimes they come across to Glasgow.. I think we are all a fine example of people who have forgiven and moved on… Cheers my dears
I agree with the sentiments of the piece, but the bit about gandhi is pretty far from the mark. A lot of folk in India directly blame gandhi for the segregation and creation of Pakistan, because he wasn't willing to integrate his vision for india with the muslim population. He was not one for putting aside sectarianism.
Grew up Catholic in Liverpool and the first experience of all this malarkey was by accident being in town with a cousin one Saturday when they had a Bobby Sands sympathy march – coaches, bricks, bottles, Orange Lodge and all that – pretty scary. Remember going home and asking my mother what the Orange Lodge was and just being told a bunch of so and so's in a vague sort of way. Grown up since then but think Rab C's ironic observation about the Celtic/Rangers alliances in A Stranger Here Myself – just about sums it up for me.
The Rangers fans sing unionist songs and celebrate the victory by a Dutch king over the legitimate Scottish king of Britain in a battle in Ireland.
The Celtic fans sing Irish nationalist songs and follow a Catholic pope who at the time was Polish and lived in Italy.
These days he would appear to be reduced to going around the lecture circuit in America fundraising on a 'the Brits should give Northern Ireland back to the Irish', as if it was some kind of mad British imperialism preventing unification. A) We don't especially want it (massive financial burden) nor no the Irish government (er.. massive financial burden) though they have to pretend as if they do because Irish politics is mental (weirder than here and France, less weird that America and Italy), B) The main people who don't want unification are the Protestant Irish, and in so far that's a rational worry it's caused by the fear they'd be discriminated against by the Catholic majority in the Republic which having people going around making a big song and dance about sectarianism only exacerbates (argument; Gerry Adams is hurting his own cause, if he actually believed in it, which I start to wonder), C) He's a tit for preaching to Yanks anyway. If your goal is to either persuade the Protestant people of Northern Ireland that life would be better in the Republic (then your life was easier before the Irish Economy went mental) or the people of Britain that they really should put pressure on their government to force Ulster on Éireann, not rabble rousing with the diaspora overseas which does great things for Sinn Fein's bank balance but only makes you look a prick and get a lot of people who can barely manage their own country motivated to stick their noses where it doesn't belong.
Aside from that, seems an alright guy.
Richard English's work on Ireland is very good and downright readable.
Yeah, it's all so ridiculous really, it ultimately boils down to grudges, nobody wants to be the first to say sorry. But people are people, what can you do? Well written and thought-provoking, nice one.
A
I was born and brought up in Glasgow into a family with strong Irish roots. I went to catholic school but was pretty much brought up not believing in any religion. I had friends both catholic and protestant. Then moved to Derry. Things aren't as mental over here as many people may think, in fact I often joke with my friends about how Derry is like disneyland compared to Glasgow. I love Glasgow but it was really violent and I ended getting battered for walkin down the wrong side of the street a few times and that had nothin to do with sectarianism. That doesn't happen here. Sure there are bad people everywhere.and Derrys no different. Maybe it's the fact that so many people were killed here in the past but today it's one of the most peaceful places around. If ye don't believe me get yerself on a cheap flight from prestwick. Good luck wi the IT crowd by the way.